What kind of expertise does your agency have, and who is your clientele, who do you work for?
Two Circles is a sports marketing agency, we work with the rights owners, and help them use data to grow direct relationships between their sports and their fans, always with the aim to drive business growth, specifically in the area of gameday, sponsorship and media. We work with more than 300 rights holders all over the world with a strong focus in the UK. I’m in the EMEA business in Bern, but we also have offices in the United States and in Paris. So we are all over the world, and our aim is to help the biggest rights holders grow their revenue with data.
What is your responsibility? What is your role in the company?
I’m a lead consultant in the EMEA office, we work out of Bern to grow the EMEA markets, and I work for example personally with BSC Young Boys and EV Zug. Of course Switzerland has a strong presence with the international federations, but we also work with local clubs and rights holders in Switzerland, France and the Benelux. An area I work with closely is data strategy and also the growth of women’s sports, which is a strong focus area of Two Circles in any market. We see big growth potential for women’s sports. Personally, I played football myself, so now I’m very happy to also be connecting it with my professional life.
How do you see the current situation of women’s sports, especially football? How do you see the growth potential and the present situation?
Well, we see very positive signs of growth, the last five years has been exponential, not only in football, but in women’s sports in general. But of course, football is a major success story. We have recently seen women’s football matches, including the women’s Champions League, breaking attendance records in many markets – including in Switzerland with the Cup Final between FC Zürich and GC Zürich. We also see sponsorship money going into women’s sports. It’s rising, and the forecast is very positive. We are very excited for the Women’s Euro this summer in the UK. I think it will be the biggest Euro that’s ever taken place. Ticket sales have reached a volume of 400K and have exceeded the record of 240K for the Women’s Euro in the Netherland 2017 already… This big event will give another push to women’s football, but also women’s sports in general. So now we’re seeing proof that there’s real commercial value in it, with sponsors investing money and also clubs and rights holders investing money to grow the sport, which is very, very exciting.
Why do we experience this tipping point now? What are the elements of success, is it only because of the many investments? Why are women’s sports evolving so rapidly right now?
That’s a good question. I think it’s triggered by socio economic changes within society. The role of women has changed, as well as the role of women in business. The topic of equality is important, and I think that it is swapping over to sports, which we all know is often a mirror of society. This provides more attention and visibility to women’s sports, which is exactly what we think is the tactic to grow, by giving women’s sports a platform. I think those are the main triggers. Once you’ve reached a tipping point, you have all those different players realizing the potential. Exponential growth can happen: we see that from the data we have analyzed. We are in a very exciting phase for women’s sports.
What does the data show you in general about women’s sports? I suppose that you prognostize or you see a growth potential, which is very good for business as well.
Exactly. We have conducted research in various markets, with extensive research specifically in the UK and France, where we analyzed data from fans and audiences. In doing so we have found out who the audiences for women’s sports are, what their level of interest is, who their favorite players are – all to understand the consumer view on women’s sports. We have also conducted qualitative and quantitative research to forecast sponsorship, media, and gameday revenue. All our analysis shows that women’s sport will significantly grow in the next few years. Now we are making rights holders aware that this is a growth market, and helping them capitalize on the opportunity. These conversations are very interesting and exciting. In Switzerland for example, we work with Young Boys, the most successful football club in recent years. They realize that there is potential in growing their women’s sports team and have made investments to systematically professionalize the team and grow visibility. We worked together with them to conduct research within their fanbase about the awareness of their women’s teams, gauging their interest levels, and what they are looking for in women’s football compared to men’s football. Who exactly is the person that watches women’s sports in comparison to men’s sports? We analyzed the fan data and based on that, we supported them in writing a strategy on growing their team and their sports in various areas with marketing and sponsorship and ticketing.
Which are the barriers you have to face when you speak with top executives from clubs or rights holders, and they say that men’s sports are already really developed, there are stars over there, and that business is very stable. If they invest in women’s sports, how do you guarantee that they can develop it as a profitable new revenue stream for their business?
Yeah. As I said, I think I would always suggest treating it as a growth market. It’s an investment that will pay off as the overall market is predicted to grow. We recommend our clients treat women’s sport as a premium product and invest in professionalizing and using their resources to grow that area of the business. Of course, the maturity level is very different in each market. For example, in Germany there’s more awareness of the potential of women’s football with the Flyeralarm Bundesliga being one of the top leagues in Europe. In Switzerland, we’ve seen the league and level of professionalization develop, however most of the Swiss national team players are playing abroad for top clubs in Spain, the UK and Germany. This influences the attractiveness of the league. We found in our research that one of the big growth stoppers for women’s sport is that there is not enough visibility – both for the sports and the players. That systematically needs to change in order for growth to occur. But that is where women’s sports need everyone – the clubs, the leagues and, of course, the federations – to work together.
How do you see the CEE [Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Hungarian] market regarding the current situation of women football?
I don’t have a specific market intelligence on those markets, but I imagine very similar to Switzerland maybe 10 or 15 years ago – i.e. little awareness and interest in women’s football. There was also no trust that this product can be premium and attract sizable audiences, with potential to grow. But I think in the end, it is really about making a commitment. What we see at the very start of the journey growing women’s football is that usually individuals trigger and individual decision makers at clubs or federations believe in women’s football. Sepp Blatter actually always said women’s football is the future. Once all the different players start to interact and grow the sport, there is a big potential. Of course, potential depends also on how football has developed generally, but I think in probably 10-15 years Hungary will be at a different stage because it is a global movement. It is not only in Europe, it is in the US, it is also in Asian countries. So I also expect in the next 5 to 10 years that we will see similar developments in CEE markets.
You mentioned that you focus on data within the agency. How do you see the role of data in business development, in sports? Which areas do you use the data to create value for your clients?
Generally, we see that the volume of available data is growing. This is due to technology developments in many areas. There is a lot of data captured that, when structured, can be used for the benefit of both sports fans and sports rights owners. With rights owners we focus on fan data, consumer data, to help them know their customers better, create direct connections, and learn about what they want, when they want it, and how they can engage them.
So we use data to grow, for example, revenues on game day, by analyzing ticketing data, and conducting research on preferences of fans to find out what products clubs need to offer and to make sure they can grow revenue from each fan. For that, a direct connection to the fan is crucial. And when I talk about direct connection, it is not necessarily data coming from 3rd party platforms like social media, it is talking to them directly through email or their own digital platforms. Having a view on products they have bought also gives an indication of the potential to cross-sell products in merchandising and so on.
So you are really focusing on analyzing the data and giving personalized experience for the fans through email or other campaigns.
Exactly. And personalization is key in engaging fans. What do they want? When and how can we best serve them? How do we learn more about the fan? In order to personalize, we need to know as much as possible about the fan – not fans as a crowd or a collective, but specific fans. With data, we can learn more and more about the fan and then we are able to add or grow revenue streams.
I suppose what really matters with the personalization is to activate the fans. Asking them to come to the match, to buy, to follow us on social media, and so on. To make them more engaged and more active in the rights owners ecosystem.
Yes. We usually say that the first priority is to grow your audience [in volume]. The more volume, the more knowledge you can then get on them. The second step is engagement; it is crucial to engage them, to activate them, to provide them with the relevant information, the information they are keen to get from their club and about the competitions. Whenever you have volume, whenever you have knowledge on audience segmentations, you can then monetize by targeting those audience segments, as you say, and then sell merchandise, tickets and bring them to your games, eating and drinking more in the stadium.
You are working with big brands, bigger stakeholders for some clubs or world events. In their community, often over 90% are remote fans, who barely or never attend matches in person. How do you see the topic of remote fan monetization? How crucial is this area for the sports business now?
Well, I think the importance of remote fans is growing, as content is becoming more accessible all over the world. Rights holders are also becoming more like media owners, creating and keeping ownership of content where in the past big broadcast companies owned their content and distribution This is exactly why we support our clients in growing direct relationships, not only through matchday experiences and physical contact. In the past you learned most about a fan from when they came into your stadium and bought something. Now we have more insights from engagement on digital platforms from fans anywhere in the world.
So you also see in your experience that there is a shift in the mindset that digital experiences are even more and more important after the pandemic crisis?
Yeah, I think that the pandemic has played a role, and definitely showed that there are limitations for businesses that just make revenue from physical experiences. It has also shown that digital contact with a fan is growing in importance. Before the pandemic there were new technologies such as the metaverse and NFTs, and I think we now have a layer where ‘physical’ experiences can be made more accessible through digital. The pandemic has also accelerated the ownership of data, and ownership of content, and ability to provide and distribute content. A recent example of this is our partnership with FIBA with the launch of Courtside 1891, an OTT platform for global basketball fans. This is also just another example of how rights holders can share content to fans in the way they want it, and when they want it. Through that rights holders can grow their knowledge exponentially. Then, of course, re-invest that knowledge into targeting the content, and making revenue from that learning journey.
You mentioned NFT, this is a buzzword right now in the sports industry and in the music and art industries as well. How do you see the potential in the NFT technology and this kind of business?
Yes, I think that in a lot of contexts it is still a buzzword. But we do see some very impressive and interesting use cases in sports already, even though I think maybe not every fan sees it that way. Not everybody understands the technology as it is now only just being made accessible for the public. So what we see rights owners currently doing is tapping into the topic, mostly through partnerships with companies in that space, in the area of blockchain and NFTs, but we also see use cases that have actually brought in direct revenue from the sale of collectibles. Our client BSC Young Boys was the first football club in the world to sell NFTs through their own merchandising store. It was comparable to launching a new product in a merchandising store, with some PR around it to showcase why it is an interesting product to buy. To the fans therefore it didn’t really matter how it worked or the technology behind it – it has been made accessible to the fans who buy it. I think that is what is really powerful. There is a lot of potential, however, we don’t know in which direction it will go. We see a lot of creative ideas from rights owners to make use of it. As a business we are watching very closely and we also, of course, have commercial projects in this area so are doing our own research.
As for the future, how do you see your role in the company? Which kind of goals do you have and which kind of areas are the most exciting for you as a professional right now?
Well, my priority and a Two Circles priority is to grow our presence in the European market. It is definitely to leverage the insights and expertise from the US and elsewhere in Europe in different markets and to educate and work with different rights holders in different markets, and also bring growth to their markets. As you also know, the use of data is at different stages in different markets. Our goal is to enable rights owners to make the best out of it, capture it, structure it, and then monetize it. The growth of women’s sports is also a strategic priority for Two Circles. We want to continue helping it to grow and helping the rights owners to grow women’s sports on many levels – with the federations, with the leagues and the clubs. That is very important to us. While women’s sport often was purpose-led in the past, there is now real commercial value in it. So we face a really exciting time.